How to Improve Your Retirement Travel – As Featured on the Retirement Answer Man Podcast

Speech-to-text transcription can look a little quirky. Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors.

Episode #594 - How to Improve Your Retirement Travel

“Mary, I know what I'm going to do tomorrow and the next day and next year and the year after that. I'm shaking the dust of this crummy little town off my feet and I'm going to see the world. Italy, Greece, the Parthenon, the Coliseum. Then I'm coming back here.”

-George Bailey, It's a Wonderful Life

Roger: Welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have the confidence to go out and see the world. Oh, I love the enthusiasm that younger guy had in that scene.

Today on the show, we're going to talk about how to improve your retirement travel. Really, I want to explore why travel is such a normal goal in retirement. I've been curious about that for a while. We're going to explore that today and throughout the month. 

In addition to that, we're going to have Andrew Motiwalla, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. The founder of A Good Life Abroad, a wonderful company that we stumbled across. He has a great spirit. We're going to talk about how to improve retirement travel and some things that they do. That's what we're going to do today. 

Now, for the rest of the month, we'll share some rocking retirement in the wild travel stories. But we're also going to deal with practical things. Next week is how to rebalance your retirement portfolio. The week after that is pretty important episode how to quality check your retirement plan so you can have more confidence in it. Before we get started, I would be remiss in not reminding you that tomorrow, June 5th is our live event where we're going to hang out and talk about how to have a process to help us navigate life so we can compartmentalize retirement planning so it doesn't become a second job. You can register for that at livewithroger.com and we'll share a replay if you can't make it live. In addition, tomorrow is the open enrollment period for the summer cohort of the Rock Retirement club. So, if you're looking to learn how to build your retirement plan of record, have the tools and the community to support you in that. We have open enrollment starting tomorrow. You can go to rockretirementclub.com with that. 

Let's get to a story about rocking retirement in the wild and then we'll explore travel.

ROCKIN’ RETIREMENT IN THE WILD

I have two quick rocking life in retirement stories. The first one's very quick. This came from a listener. I didn't write down her name, but it was related to Dr. Bobby episode about a month ago. So, I'm a little late here. 

She says,

“I have a balance hack for you. I put my socks on standing up. It's more difficult than you might think, but I took a couple of months off and then I had to restart and almost fell on my face. Always be careful and be near a couch, but I love that intentional effort.”

Bravo to you. Our second rock life in retirement is more travel related. This comes from a listener from Laos. 

“Hey, Roger, Love the podcast and The Noodle. Your show did exactly what you said, gave me confidence in my process and plan. So, my wife and I quit our jobs in September last year to travel for a year. We sold and gave away almost all of our possessions, including our cars, and rented our house out, making the voyage much more affordable. We've been traveling since October and so far it has been much more affordable than I expected. I'm not sure we will become permanent nomads, but it's definitely an option. We are 55 and 57 years old, so keeping expenses down in these early years will go a long way in making our plan resilient. 

I really appreciate your careful wording around the political comment. Everyone needs a good plan. I also love the wide range of topics.

Cheers from Laos.” 

Wow. Laos. I've never been to Southeast Asia. That would be awesome. Well, congratulations to you in working a plan to have confidence to go rock retirement.

TRAVEL IN RETIREMENT

Now let's go talk about why we want to travel in retirement. I was having a conversation with a client a few weeks ago, and he is very passionate about doing the Camino hike in Spain. He's done different parts of it because of some injuries. He's going to Spain this year, but he's not going to be able to do the hike. It's like, well, wait a second here. Why do you like to do this? What is, what is? Where's the passion come from? He started to describe why he is so passionate about it. Then he gave me a lot of words, a lot of descriptions, a lot of perspective of what, he gets out of it, he gave me an example of some experiences he's had, et cetera. But towards the tail end of his monologue about this, which was beautiful to hear, you could just feel the passion about it, he said three words that I keyed on really quickly. He said, I feel awake. Now that's my current working version of why do retirees want to travel? The experience. He feels awake when he is doing these things. We all have different things that make us feel awake. I started to write a journal and think about why do we travel? I came up with some ideas. I'm not saying I have the answer to this, but this may be you. You may have a reason to travel. Maybe you haven't identified it, maybe you haven't done it yet, but maybe this will help give you some framework to consider exploring, not necessarily the world, but in a way that makes sense for you. 

Why do we travel? I said, well, one, a lot of people I hear want to make up for missed opportunities. They've been working a lot, maybe they've traveled a lot, but they've always been in a hotel, in conferences. I think one reason is those missed opportunities. Another is it expands your world when you travel, gives you new perspectives, new things to talk about. It creates memories. That's a big one. 

This is also one that we may not identify consciously is self-care. I can think of myself this way. Adventure is one of my top ten values. I need adventure. I can get melancholy. I can get down in the dumps if I'm not going out in doing things. I've had mild depression and anxiety that I've managed over the years. I think getting out of my environment helps me do that. If you do little, basic research, when you're feeling anxious or a little bit depressed, changing your environment helps. Getting outside helps. Being more social helps. Interacting with people and getting out of your head helps. I even find it where I have to go to a coffee shop to work every now and then just to get out of my house and my normal routine because I can pretty much stay here all the time and work and play and do stuff. I think travel is one of these things that feeds into self-care. 

What are other reasons? I thought another one might be maybe we like ourselves more when we take on the traveler role. Not that we don't like ourselves normally, but it's a different version of ourselves. We're out of our habits and our routines. We're more social. We're open to new conversations and new experiences. You know, the joke with the family when we travel and we're walking out the door, hey, you got your GA. You got your GA. They're like, what, what's the GA? Well, they know now that they have grown up. You have to have your great attitude when you're traveling. You have got to bring your great attitude. You have to let things wash off you more. You miss the train? Okay, let's figure it out. You know, the meal wasn't quite right, but it was a new experience. Maybe we like that freshness and that version of us, and we want to enjoy that at some point. 

Another reason that we might like to travel all the time, but maybe specifically in retirement, is we are teleological in nature. We like to set a target and hit a target. It's something that has made the world what it is. We're teleological. So maybe we enjoy the cycle of travel in retirement. We have an idea, and then we decide. You know, we explore different places to go, and then we decide, and then we do the planning. Whether it's the logistical planning or the research planning. All that anticipation, and then we accomplish it. You know, research has shown that the anticipation of amazing trips or things is really where the benefit is that doing the thing is sort of the icing on top, but it's all that anticipation. So maybe we enjoy that cycle and then once we get back, we consolidate, we tell stories. We do. We. We have expanded our world, so what's next? Then we go through that cycle again. Maybe it's a teleological thing that you don't realize.

I think those are some reasons. But ultimately I come back to, I feel awake. I feel awake. I’m out of the matrix. If you ever saw that move, you get out of your normal environment and everything is new. You're exploring. You're a different version of yourself. I feel awake. Or we're expanding our life. We have more new things to talk about. I think that may be why, but I'd be interested in your perspective. Feel free to reply to The Noodle and maybe we'll share some of those later this month.

So that begs the question, when we're thinking about traveling, what are obstacles? So maybe you desire to travel and you haven't done it. We told Karen's story. Who you will hear from later this month on a previous episode that we'll link to in The Noodle, where she wanted to travel, but she couldn't get herself quite to do it, and she tells that story. So, we'll have a link to that conversation. 

But what are obstacles? I think the number one obstacle is inertia. an object at rest stays at rest. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. I want to exercise. I want to eat better. But getting to ourselves to go do it is a big obstacle. 

Number two is anxiety. Even though we're maybe excited about travel, being a little bit anxious about going somewhere new, how is this going to work? I don't speak the language or I don't know my way around. That anxiety can couple with inertia. Maybe next year. 

Different preferences. If you're married, you know, you don't like to do the same things, and so it's harder to make decisions. My wife and I, we have some things that we love to do together, but I have a lot of things that she doesn't like to do, and I go do them on my own, and she's cool with that. But that battle between what we both want and how do we get some of that. 

Next is safety. The world seems to be a scary place. You know, if we watch the news, especially if we're traveling internationally and especially if we're not going with someone, if we're doing solo travel, that's a little scary to be somewhere different and not have a foxhole buddy or a friend. 

Another one could be money. We feel constrained financially and we can't. We don't have the money to do international travel or the things that we hear about. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But money is an obstacle. 

Family obligations. Ooh, there's a big one. I'm taking care of my elderly parents or I have a child or someone that I need to make sure is okay. If I leave, how do I do that? That is an obstacle. 

Now, these are obstacles. Doesn't mean they can't be overcome. They're just hurdles that we have to work through. Again, all the while, inertia, maybe next year sits in over and over. So, we got these things battling us. 

Then the last one I thought of is just health concerns, limitations on what you're going to be able to do. If I go to London, will I be able to walk around or maybe our hearing or whatever, what have you. These are obstacles.

Let's talk about types of travel to perhaps broaden the option set that you're. You have to do when you think of travel. Maybe you have some money constraints or safety constraints or anxiety or even family, some of these obstacles. Maybe you have some of those. Well, we can talk about international. We're going to share Some stories from Andrew today and Scott, Karen, and Shannon later this month that are almost more international based. I'm going to work on getting a story or two that are not international based. But we think of that, and that's a pretty big hurdle for some of us. There's international travel of all types. But let's close the aperture a little bit. You can travel in the United States, right? It's huge. I'm here in the U.S. or whatever country you're in in the United States. You could spend your entire life exploring the United States in various ways, whether it's the cities and that way we're familiar with the language, the health care system. We can do a road trip. We can do this much more frugally. 

I think of Trish and Rick, two people I know, wonderful people and they do hikes and they generally do them in the United States. They've gone international, but they do a lot of hiking just in the United States. So, let's close the aperture a little bit more. Let's talk about regional travel. You know, obviously we have the RV’ers galore, people that are traveling in RVs and cars and going all over and camping. But I'll use myself as an example. 

During this season, I've said no to a lot of travel opportunities because I just want to travel in Colorado. We're staying here for a long period of time. It's our first year. I just want to go explore a different city. I want to explore different national parks or state parks. I want to explore different spots. Just in the city of Salida. Oh, here's a new restaurant that someone told me about that I didn't hear about. Here's a new hike that I didn't hear about. It gets me out of my rhythm. It gets me experience something new, within one state and it can be done with relatively no money. 

Now let's close the aperture even a little bit more. What about local? I mentioned some with me. But, in local travel, a common thing that we hear is when someone comes in town, you probably have heard this and you go show them. Like we usually will go to the stockyards if we're in Fort Worth, which is this old timey stockyard area that has been redone and upscaled. It's cowboy central. When we go there, usually it's with somebody that's out of town. We never go there on our own or to the local museums or some of the local restaurants. Generally, we only do that when we're entertaining someone else, but we don't do it on our own. So, when you think of local travel, I think of Kevin and Laurie, my brother and sister in law. He has a list on Google Maps of restaurants, trails and breweries that they want to go visit that are all within a very limited geographical range. He's proactive. Oh, I heard about this brewery. They like to go sit out in the brewery with their dog. So, they're exploring new things, new experiences, expanding the world so they can feel awake and never really leaving a zip code or two. You get essentially this a lot of the same impact as if you went off to Greece. 

I just want to expand how you think about travel so you can expand your life and feel more awake. Now with that said, let's talk about international travel with Andrew from the Good Life Abroad.

INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL WITH ANDREW MOTIWALA

Okay, we're here with Andrew from Good Life Abroad, which is a great name by the way. Let's start off with the how to pronounce your last name.

Andrew: Sure. Andrew Motiwala.

Roger: You have an extensive travel history. Give me a little bit of your background of why you are focused on travel not just in this stage of your life, but essentially your entire life.

Andrew: It all started with study abroad experience in college, and I was in Ecuador for a semester and studying abroad was great, but also on the weekends we traveled around the country a bit with, my friends from study abroad program and really fell in love with this idea of going off and exploring a new place and having my whole life in a backpack. Then that led me to join the Peace Corps, where I lived abroad for a couple more years and eventually professionally got into the travel industry.

Roger: So, you've been doing this your whole life, organizing your life around it. From a business perspective, you've organized group travel for decades.

Andrew: For about 30 years.

Roger: For about 30 years. Now what morphed it into the Good Life Abroad? What was the use case for you starting that?

Andrew: Yeah, so I started out my career. I started a company called Terra Education and there was student travel. Student travel was great; it was around high school students and some universities. And then parents would say, that seems so cool. Can we do that? So, then I created a family travel business so the whole family could do this or adults. Then that over time became more and more grandparents taking the kids and grandkids. That became family travel. And of course, you know, the grandparents are paying for all of this. I would go on these trips and many of the grandparents would say to me, these trips are great and we love it because we can do stuff with our kids and grandparents, but.

Roger: Can we get rid of the kids a little bit?

Andrew: Yeah, but why isn't there something for us? And what they mean by that or they meant by that was they would say, we're retired. We don't want to like get on a tour. We have to get on the bus, off the bus, in the hotel, check out of the hotel, go to the next hotel. We have time. Why isn't there something where we can just slow down and do this at our own pace? That is the spark for the good life abroad, where you're living abroad for a month or two and your independent apartments and you can kind of explore a city at your own pace. Because the one thing that retirees have is time.

Roger: I think that's actually a good distinction. Remember Oldsmobile? This isn't your grandmother's Oldsmobile, I think, was, like the slogan. I think with travel in retirement. It's changed from it used to be the buses, where it was totally, I don't even want to say curated but programmed. You got off and on, off and on. That was sort of what our grandparents would do more in travel. I think the modern retiree is much more. They have the space you're talking about and there's a huge need for this. for sure.

Tell me what the Good Life Abroad does.

Andrew: Fundamentally, the good life abroad is a way for people to live abroad in Europe for a month or two in a vetted curated apartment where we've checked it out, made sure it's appropriate for people 55 and older, from North America, not a little tiny European shoebox. 

Also, we provide on the ground support with a local staff person who's sort of, sort of your on the ground concierge and local friend who's going to plug you into cool local events and activities. It's a cohort of people. So, you have other people in the program who have their own apartments who sort of live in the neighborhood and you can get together with them at happy hours or meals or cooking classes or whatnot. So, you have some layers of support. we also provide medical insurance and access to English speaking, medical care, but you also have friends, sort of community members who are nearby. So, you can be as social or not, as social as you want.

Roger: That concierge is essentially your easy button for what neighborhoods to perhaps go to because you have an interest or just as importantly, what neighborhoods maybe not to go to and how do I use the subway and all Those pesky things that we have to try to figure out.

Andrew: Exactly, exactly. They're going to guide you through that. They're going to suggest cool things you might not know about local, concerts and events that are happening. and they will also organize parties and activities and fun things to do with the community.

Roger: So is the community part of it, the initial intent, or was it unexpected? byproduct.

Andrew: Unexpected byproduct. I started this with the idea that I was going to help people become an expat. They're going to move abroad and this would be their first step, sort of a way to do a scouting trip or due diligence before a really big move. So, they can go and check out neighborhoods and see apartments and whatnot. Turns out that's maybe a quarter of the people who want to do that, but 75% of the people just want to have that experience of living abroad like a local, but they don't want to leave America. They don't want to give up their home. They just want to go have that experience for a month or two and then go back home. It's sort of what you were saying earlier. 

I think the traveler today is a lot more sophisticated than say, our parents time when they were getting on and off the bus. Nothing is wrong with that too. It's a great way to see a lot of things in a short period of time. But, if you have the time and today's traveler smart enough to know, I can pull up this phone and I can book a tour if I want to go see, you know, any sort of attraction. But also, if I'm there for a month, I don't have to go to a tour. I can also sit at a cafe, read a book. I can sleep in late. I'm not rushing around. I'm going to see this place as I want to see it. A lot of it might just be about absorbing the local rhythm of life in that place.

Roger: So, the normal way to do this, because I've had clients that have done this when they're exploring either being a full time expat or they just want to go live someplace for a month or so. Right. I'm in Colorado right now. That's what we did here for years. We just rented a place for a month or two. That can be sort of hit or miss of what kind of place you get into. Ooh, that couch looked nice but it's really cheap in the end. What are the advantages or the struggles if you try to do it on your own via VRBO or something like that?

Andrew: Yeah, those are great platforms and obviously we've all used it. But, if you're going abroad for a month or two or more, it's a bit risky because you're basing everything off of some photos. And who knows if there's a camera filter or a funny lens that makes things look better than they really are. But, in our case, we offer apartments that we've actually vetted, and we have certain criteria that we evaluate every apartment off of so that we know it really will be a comfortable apartment for your stay. We could provide details on amenities. And we know the kind of quirks, perhaps of certain apartments because we work with these apartments year round.

Roger: Yeah. I imagine too, that if you're exploring an expat life, literally where you want to be, the 25% that live someplace else, having a table set for you with a cohort and a concierge is going to drastically increase your ability to survey neighborhoods and get a local perspective than if you're just on your own and bouncing around.

Andrew: Exactly. It's the difference between wandering around a neighborhood in Europe on your own or going with a guide who's an expert in history or whatever. Suddenly the whole neighborhood becomes alive to you, and that's what our local staff do for our people.

Roger: Sort of like a museum comes alive if you go with a docent.

Andrew: Exactly.

Roger: See, now I know how to say that word.

I was thinking, I've been pulling on this thread of why people want to travel, especially in retirement. From my perspective, I mean, there are a lot of reasons obviously, just to go do see interesting things. But I wonder if there's a poll that we didn't get the chance to do it because of the normal American corporate work pace, and we've delayed it. I know for me; that's a little bit of that is there are certain things I wish I would have done. Now I have got to catch up. What have you noticed with the cohorts that you facilitated as to what's driving them to want to do this?

Andrew: I think there's definitely a bucket list. People have things they want to see and do and so that I often see as the beginning of retirement. Okay, I have time. Let's go. But then they go on all the tours and they go on all the cruises. And like I said, those things are great because you see a lot of things in a Relatively short period of time. What we find is that maybe five years into retirement, they've done all the cruises and tours, they've seen all the things, and they're like, I want to go deeper now. I want something more, something else that is going to fulfill them.

Roger: It's more soulful.

Andrew: Something more soulful. Right, and I think that if you're just always, for example, if you're always partying, eventually you get tired of partying, you want something deeper. What is that? That's really the question. I think that's something people should ask themselves when they are considering what kind of travel they want to do in retirement.

Roger: We had a gentleman named Charles Ellis on a few weeks ago, who's a legendary professor and author in the investment world. It was funny, I was asking him because he was traveling. He's 87 now. He said, roger. I said, well, what's your purpose right now, Charles? Because he's written like, 12, 20 books or so. And he's like, well, you know, Roger, this sounds really goofy, almost apologizing for it, Andrew, he said, there are these two or three artists that I really want to go deep on, and I want to find the museums where they're profiled and really go deep into those museums. I think that's sort of the difference. To him, it felt really goofy, but it was important to him for whatever reason. and maybe that's the distinction.

Andrew: Yeah, it reminds me of the guy who traveled with us to Florence, Italy, who had been an accountant his whole life, retired, and he had this dream of being an artist one day, and now he's pursuing that in retirement. Instead of just traveling for travel's sake, he thought, how can I combine my love of art with travel? He came and immersed himself in Renaissance art for a month in Florence, Italy, with a good life abroad. He had time to paint, but he also learned. I thought it was a great way to combine something personal and meaningful to him with travel. And I think it was. It was life changing in a way.

Roger: In a different era and a different person could have a whole different experience. I was thinking of my grandfather and have been reading his journals on the podcast and have been since last Veterans day. He flew in B-17s while stationed in Europe. So, you can imagine a different person like a Roger being in Florence, wanting to Explore World War II history. Totally different than the accountant dude, but perhaps on the same trip Totally different experience that's meaningful to them.

Andrew: That's the beauty of the trip, is that we are basically providing a blank canvas with support, but everyone paints their own picture. It's funny, we just talked to a woman yesterday, who came back from Sicily with us in Palermo and she went with her papers to track down her grandparents birthplace and the descent. That was her version of it. In the same group we had another person who went super deep into Sicilian cooking and she just wanted to cook. So, she was doing a cooking experience. This person was doing a genealogical thing. And it's great. Everyone's doing the thing that they want to do and they have a month to do it.

Roger: So, I know that we're going to explore possibly doing the Good Life Abroad experience with the Rock Retirement Club, which I'm excited about. I don't know what form that's going to take, but I think that will be because we have a lot of people that have met in the club that travel together. The last thing I want to poke at is what is it? You know, right or wrong is a weird framing, but what is it that you see that people do? Maybe it's what we're talking about that really takes travel to a whole other level.

Andrew: That brings up a few thoughts for me. One is thinking a little bit more about logistics, such as getting the right kind of apartment that's right for you, you know, safety and security, and what happens if I have a medical issue while I'm abroad thinking about community. I think often if people are abroad for long periods of time, they don't realize that community is really important and they may get lonely, especially if they're in a place where they don't speak the native language. 

Lastly, but most importantly, is taking just a moment to be to do some introspection and reflection about who you are and what you want your retirement to look like, then thinking about how I can incorporate that into my travels? Because I think that leads to a more satisfying travel experience than just going through the checklists. I got to see this, this and this and this and running around because at the end of it you might feel still a little empty versus doing something that feeds your soul a bit more.

Roger: One last question I was thinking about. Of the 75% that use Good Life Abroad for the extended experience, what percentage of them are singles?

Andrew: Great question. about 30% of our community members are solo travelers. I think it's kind of obvious why they come to us because the idea of having a community of friends who live nearby really appeals to them having that local support, not really being on your own, but at the same time being, having the independence and be on your own for as much as you want. It's a significant portion. Then about 60, 70% of our people are couples.

Roger: Yeah, because you're not stuck on the bus as our grandparents maybe. You have the freedom, but you have the support if you need it. 

Well, I'm excited. We're going to do a meet up in the club with you and explore specific places because I know there will be a lot of people that have questions about that. and we'll have links to the good life abroad in our weekly email. 

Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew: Great, thanks Roger. That was fun.

TODAY’S SMART SPRINT SEGMENT

Roger: On your marks, get set, and we're off to set a little baby step you can take in the next seven days to not just rock retirement, but rock life. 

All right, in the next seven days I challenge you. Go someplace new in your own zip code. There could be a new museum, a new park, a new hike, or a new brewery. Do something outside of your matrix and experience something new and feel awake.

BONUS

Now we're on to my grandfather's journey who flew in B-17s during World War II. We're almost to the end here. let's see, where are we at? This is the last mission. But he has some postscript thoughts that I'll read maybe in the weeks to come. Missions number 50 and 51. 

“September 13th. Ship number 004 sortie 33. Not going to say this is the best for last because this isn't really cool. This was a dramatic way to end your missions. I can imagine having to serve your country. Went and visited our old friend Blankenheim Germany again today. Saw a plane get hit with a load of bombs. Indescribable after explosion. Usual flak. Lost seven planes in group today. Every plane had at least a few holes in it. Sure was a grand exit. But I am awfully happy to end my missions. It has come. Carried 12,500 pound bombs. Mission 8 hours and 40 minutes. Altitude 26,000ft. 

P.S. five done and five to go. Here's hoping.” 

I believe he meant that for his crew. Wow, a lot happened there. Last missions 50 51. He has some postscript comments that I will read in the coming weeks to end this journey. 

The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any, any individual. All, performance reference is historical and does not guarantee future results. All indices are unmanaged and cannot be invested in directly. Make sure you consult your legal, tax or financial advisor before making any decisions.