Living Abroad in Retirement for Joy, Confidence & Community – As Featured on the Thin Thinking Podcast

TRANSCRIPT: The Thin Thinking Podcast

Guest: Andrew Motiwalla, Founder of The Good Life Abroad

Host: Rita Black

Episode: thegoodlifeabroad.com appearance

Source: shiftweightmastery.com/276-2/

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[00:00:00]

RITA: What if your next chapter wasn't about slowing down, shrinking your world, or simply checking places off a travel bucket list, but about expanding your confidence, your community, your sense of adventure, and maybe even your idea of what retirement can look like?

[00:00:18]

In today's episode, I'm talking with Andrew Motiwalla, founder of The Good Life Abroad, a company that creates month-long community-based travel experiences across Europe for people over 55.

[00:00:33]

And this isn't a whirlwind tour where you get on and off a bus faster than you can say, "Where's my passport?" This is about living more like a local with your own apartment, local support, built-in community, and plenty of opportunities to explore, connect, walk, eat, learn, and enjoy life in a deeper way.

[00:00:56]

Andrew and I talk about travel, retirement, community wellness, and what he calls increasing your joy span, which I absolutely love. So if you've ever dreamed of living in Paris, Lisbon, Florence, or another beautiful European spot without having to figure it out all on your own — grab your imaginary passport and come on in.

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[AD BREAK — Thin Thinking Podcast / Rita Black / Shift Weight Mastery]

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[00:02:44]

RITA: I hope you are all well and enjoying these early days of summer. I wanted to share a big milestone with you — my baby boy turned 21 this last weekend. I cannot believe it that I am now the mother of all children over 20.

[00:03:12]

That he can go and pull up to a bar and drink — it's a little scary. And maybe that, his permission to drink, does that mean I have permission to drink more? I probably need it. I don't know.

[00:03:26]

But I feel like I've entered a new era where my children are officially becoming big-time adults, which makes my interview with Andrew Motiwalla feel very perfectly timed. I can't wait for you to meet him because he really opened my mind to this new way of thinking about travel and adventure.

[00:03:47]

As some of you know, I lived in London many, many years ago for a number of years, which I suppose does not count as living abroad, at least in my mind. I think it's because everybody spoke English there — I didn't feel I was officially abroad.

[00:04:08]

But my husband and I spent those years immersing ourselves in culture, British culture, but culture around Europe, traveling around and having the kind of adventure that still lives very, very happily in my memory bank.

[00:04:22]

And I'll confess, I still have secret fantasies of spending time with my hubby in beautiful foreign places, 'cause we enjoy it — settling in and living like locals for a bit, but not necessarily moving forever, just stepping into another culture long enough to feel a part of it.

[00:04:42]

And then, surprisingly, just as I was thinking about this, along came Andrew, who has created a way for people to do exactly that in month-long snippets with support, community, and without having to figure out every last detail on your own. It's very much in the spirit of slow travel, but perhaps with a little more comfort and a little less "Where exactly am I supposed to buy laundry detergent in this country?" sort of feel.

[00:05:14]

Along those lines, my daughter spent last year in Valencia, and then traveled through Europe doing Workaway, where you work in exchange for food and lodging. And some of it sounded really adventurous and magical — like swimming in an icy Norwegian fjord, where she was caring for goats and making goat cheese, and building a fence on a farm in Wales. And some of it, I will say, sounded suspiciously close to unpaid farm labor with better scenery.

[00:05:46]

So, Andrew's version, thankfully, seems to offer a little less fence building and a little more joy, connection, culture, and play.

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Either way, I think you're going to love hearing about it. And now let me introduce you to Andrew.

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[00:06:15]

RITA: Andrew Motiwalla is the founder of The Good Life Abroad, a company that offers immersive month-long community-based travel experiences across Europe for people over 55. Andrew has worked in the travel industry for more than 30 years, and his first experience living abroad was as a Peace Corps volunteer. He is also the founder of Discover Corps, a company specializing in meaningful vacations for families.

Through The Good Life Abroad, Andrew helps retirees and semi-retirees experience Europe in a way that is slower, deeper, and more connected than the traditional type of travel. His programs combine private apartments, local support, curated activities, and built-in community so travelers can live more like locals while still feeling supported and safe.

So please welcome to The Thin Thinking Podcast, Andrew. I am really excited to have you on and learn about this really interesting thing you do.

[00:07:19]

ANDREW: Thanks for having me, Rita.

[00:07:22]

RITA: So what — if you had to define what you offer people, especially retirees, experiences abroad — I really want you to define what it is. I don't wanna get it wrong. Please, this is very interesting.

[00:07:44]

ANDREW: The simple way to think about it is to live abroad in Europe for a month or two, like a local, but with a built-in community. And we can break that down, but at a high level — many people have this dream of maybe during their retirement or semi-retirement, and they haven't been able to do it because there's a lot of different things and obstacles and things to think about. And we try to make it really, really easy for you to make that dream a reality.

[00:08:13]

RITA: I love it. And it's not a cruise. It's not a tour. It is living in a place like an apartment building — or maybe tell us a little more about where, if I was your customer, if I was somebody who was like, "Andrew, I wanna come to Paris" — you have a Paris place?

[00:08:32]

ANDREW: We do.

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RITA: "I wanna come to Paris" — what is my experience gonna be?

[00:08:39]

ANDREW: So you're right. It's not a tour or cruise, but it's not just going off and renting an Airbnb by yourself. So in between a fully organized tour and doing it on your own, there's this sort of gray space, and that's what we try to fill up.

We provide your apartment, but much more than just an apartment. In Paris specifically, we have a building that we use that has something like 20 apartments. On average, our groups are about 15 people, so we don't use up all the apartments. And so you'd have your own apartment. You have your own kitchen. You can cook there. But we also have a lounge area where you can come together with other people who live in that same building in the evenings. If you wanted to crack open a bottle of wine, and there's a little courtyard patio area.

But fundamentally, over the course of a month — and the minimum stay is a month — you would have your apartment. You would be exploring Paris independently. However, over that month, we have a light sprinkling of activities and events to get you to learn the local culture more, and also to connect with your fellow travelers who are living in this building.

[00:09:47]

And what you might discover through those activities and events is there are other people in this program that you connect with, you click with, and you might wanna go off and do some things with. There's maybe other people who love jazz if you're a jazz lover and wanna go check out jazz concerts, and other people might be history buffs, and you wanna go do the historical stuff. Everyone might have their own interest, but you might find your little group of people that have shared interests with you, and then you might end up doing things with them.

[00:10:15]

RITA: Sounds like summer camp for adults. It sounds amazing.

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ANDREW: Yeah, I'll tweak that a little. I would go a step — study abroad for adults. College study abroad, but for 55 and older. How about that?

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RITA: I like that. That we all wished we had taken. I did not go abroad during college, so it sounds like, yeah, that time abroad.

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ANDREW: That's perfect, the perfect term.

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RITA: Now, how did you come up with this idea? This is your brainchild. What did you see? What sparked this idea within you?

[00:11:00]

ANDREW: So I've worked in the travel industry for about 30 years, and I owned companies that did more traditional sort of specialty tours — educational tours, family tours, different types of tours, but they were always tours. And one of the things I heard from many of our travelers in those previous companies who were retired or semi-retired was, "Andrew, these are great, but we like taking tours — eventually as we get older, we don't wanna get on the bus, off the bus, check into the hotel, check out of the hotel. We have time. Can't we just slow it down and really get to know a place? A 10-day tour is great if you have two weeks of vacation a year. But when you're retired, you have more time, and you understand there's more to it than just scratching the surface. On a 10-day tour of Italy, I mean, you're spending a day or two in places that you could spend a lifetime exploring."

[00:12:01]

And so that kind of stuck with me, and then I started doing some research and polling — I had polled some friends on Facebook about have you wanted to ever live abroad, in Europe specifically, and if so, why haven't you done it? And we did some market research, and I found a lot of pain points. Some of them include: "Well, I get lonely. I don't speak the language. As I get older, what if I need medical attention? The apartment isn't really like it looks in the Airbnb listing?" We've all had that. And if you're gonna go for a month or more, there's some risk to it, so you'd wanna have a vetted apartment. You'd like to know there's someone who's got your back, just someone who cares about your wellbeing.

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And then the big unlock was community. You can chat with people in a bar and maybe strike up a conversation, but really making friends when you're just there for a couple of months is tricky.

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And I then reflected on my own parents' experience of moving into a 55-plus community, and they went from saying, "Oh, we don't see you enough. We don't see the grandkids enough." And then my parents moved into a 55-plus community, and now I try to reach them — and they have book club and wine tasting and water aerobics. Their life is full of new friendships and new activities, and they're learning new things.

[00:13:29]

And I thought, that model — there's something very brilliant to it. You don't have to schedule their lives. You just have to create a whole menu of opportunities that they can take advantage of, and through that, they'll connect. And so that's a big part of The Good Life Abroad — having on average about three activities a week, like a cooking class, maybe a historical walking tour, a happy hour. Just having a lunch together, but a really nice lunch where you're learning about the local cuisine. And you come together, you meet other people, you learn about their lives. Maybe you make some friends.

[00:14:11]

And then what happens with that community over the course of the month — that community takes on a life of its own, and people start scheduling their own things together, and that's really beautiful to see, because it just creates another level of happiness and joy, 'cause you're sharing it with other people.

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RITA: Well, yeah, that sounds amazing. You mentioned something to me I'd love for you to dig into with my audience, which was the term "joyspan," which I had never heard.

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ANDREW: So joyspan is a term coined by Dr. Kerry Burnett. She wrote a book with that name. We've all heard of lifespan, how long we live, or healthspan, how long we're healthy, but she came up with this idea around studying how many years we have that are full of joy. And I thought that was really, really interesting.

And what she comes out with — it doesn't have to do with travel, it just has to do with how do we increase joy in our lives — and she came up with four kind of categories of things we can do that help us increase joy, especially in the later stages of our life.

[00:17:19]

And they roughly boil down to: Growing, which is sort of like learning a new skill, a hobby, nurturing your curiosity. Connecting, which is like connecting with other people, having social relationships. Adapting, which is how do you face challenges, how do you frame or reframe them. And giving back in some way.

[00:17:43]

And she talks about these four practices that will increase your joyspan, and she has all sorts of scientific data. And funny enough, if you increase your joy, it looks like you can also increase your lifespan or your healthspan. These things are connected in some way.

[00:18:01]

But what we realize is that those four things map onto The Good Life Abroad program in a really meaningful way. And when you go abroad, and you have to now navigate the Paris Metro system or the Valencia Spain bus system, you're learning new things, learning new customs, hearing new languages — that can be challenging. We're actually in a small way moving you out of your comfort zone.

[00:18:30]

You have your own apartment. It's different from an American apartment. Everything's a little bit smaller. You've gotta go buy your groceries. So you're adapting to these challenges. It's testing you a little bit, not overwhelming. And of course, you're connecting with people in your community and forming new social relationships with people who share a core value with you — this love of travel and love of other cultures.

[00:18:57]

And then giving. Giving can come in many ways. Some people wanna volunteer while they're living abroad with us. Some people, it's more about giving acts of kindness and helping out people in your community — just doing something nice for another person. And all of these things foster the sense of community.

[00:19:16]

There's another book that's influenced me called The Good Life — funny enough — and it's Harvard's longest running longitudinal study on happiness, and it fundamentally boils down to: that which gives you a great, good life comes down to relationships. Healthy relationships.

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So all these things work together, and what you find when you have these healthy relationships and you're doing these things to increase joyspan — joyspan is actually amplified because you're sharing it with other people. You're not experiencing it alone in a bubble.

[00:19:47]

And that is a very powerful thing. And what we've found is people come out of our program and say, "I went in because I thought it's a nice way to live abroad. I've always wanted to do that." And they come out going, "Oh my gosh, I've just discovered a different way of living," which includes community — plus many things that you learn from the European way of life, of slowing down and enjoying your meals, spending time together in cafes.

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And it's not just about the hanging out in the cafes — it's about the fact that they're slowing down and enjoying the conversations. Whereas some of us, myself included — very American, time is money, gotta go, go, go. And in slowing down, even in your travel, will pay off dividends for your wellbeing.

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RITA: And I would imagine — correct me if I'm wrong — if you have a number of people living in a community, there's sort of like through osmosis people who might not be as adventurous typically will see other people venturing out, and then that will help them move past their fear or their internal barriers — to get on the metro, or do something that they might, if they were a tourist, not normally do.

[00:21:24]

ANDREW: You are so right on. And what's beautiful about that — the community almost creates this additional support that empowers you or makes you feel safe to do this. And what's amazing is at the end of that month, what we see time and time again is an increased sense of confidence. "I just mastered Paris for a month. What else can I do?"

[00:21:49]

And the beautiful thing is in retirement, instead of the world getting smaller and smaller and closing in, the world is opening up. You're like, "I can do that. What else? Maybe I'll try a month in Lisbon or Vienna." So I love that we give people confidence to try new things and get pushed out of their comfort zone, master it, and then feel empowered.

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And the other thing that's really interesting — about a third of our travelers are solo travelers.

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RITA: Are they worried about their pet at home? Are they worried about—

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ANDREW: Yeah, it's about two-thirds couples, but a third solo. Most of the solos are females. And what we found is a lot of widows or people who got divorced later in life. And what's interesting about that — maybe they traveled when they were married, and travel was a thing that they loved to share. But when you're married and you travel, there's often roles: he's the navigator, she's the planner, the booker of activities. Everyone has their role.

[00:23:00]

And so when they find themselves alone later in life, they are missing that other role. And they come to our program like, "Ah, it's all just handled for us." And then they meet these other solo travelers, many of whom are going through similar periods of transition in their life, and it's a really close-knit community. We even have some sessions that are specifically reserved for solo travelers because we find that to be a really powerful experience for them.

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RITA: I was gonna ask, so yeah, about relationships — so people might come out of it with new friends and travel buddies, things like that. And maybe new habits.

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ANDREW: Yes. And also people who are... A lot of people say, "I took Spanish, I took French in high school or college, but I kinda forgot it. Then I spent that month and it started to come back, and the neurons were firing in my brain, and I kinda got it, and now I wanna keep up with it. And it's so great — I'm learning this language now that I'm 55, 60 years old." But it's great because they have something that keeps working that aspect of their brain.

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RITA: Well, tell us — you mentioned Sardinia, you mentioned Paris. Where are some other destinations that you have available for people?

[00:27:21]

ANDREW: We're in 25 cities across Europe — I won't name them all. Everything from Lisbon, Portugal up to Porto. So we have bigger cities, smaller towns. Places like Vienna, Prague, Bordeaux in France, Nice in the French Riviera, Florence, Italy. Florence blows me away because the average American goes there for 2.5 days. Florence — you could spend a month and not even scratch the surface if you're into art or food or culture.

[00:27:52]

Rome, another place where it's just an amazing city. Barcelona, Valencia, Seville, Spain. Places where even in the middle of winter — Seville, Valencia, Sardinia in February — it's so nice. We find a lot of people, especially from the northern states, they'll come to us in February. And the people from Arizona and Florida, they wanna get out of dodge in the summer. And so they'll go to maybe our northern European destinations like Vienna and Prague, or even Dublin, Ireland, or Edinburgh, where it's pretty pleasant even in the summer.

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RITA: What kind of people — when somebody is thinking about doing something like this — what are the biggest objections and fears that people come up against? A lot of people who are retired have time. But are they worried about their pet at home?

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ANDREW: You've nailed a very big one — the pet. Some people do bring their pets. There's a whole process. It's a little bit of a hassle. I always encourage people: find a family member or a relative or friend who'd love to have your pet for that month. Because believe me, there's a lot of people in the world who would love to have a pet — they just don't wanna commit to 15 years of their life. But a month would be really fun.

[00:29:39]

But the big concerns are really around the housing. Like, what is this apartment? Is it really as nice as it looks on the photos? And we have video apartment tours, and there's a private Facebook group where people who are on programs or have just finished programs can talk to people who are about to go — prospective clients can talk like, "Hey, did they have a cheese grater in the apartment?" And they're like, "No, but we bought a cheese grater." But they can get really in-depth details.

[00:30:19]

Now, there are some people who have health concerns or mobility concerns, and that's important to talk about because again, we're not a tour. There's no bus that picks you up and drives you to the next event. We are sending you a Google Maps link and say, "Alright, meet you tomorrow at the cooking class. Here's the place." That said, during orientation, we literally teach you how to ride public transportation. We give you your card, we take a ride together, we teach you how to navigate the metro system. We are empowering you to live like a local.

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But in the end, it's not a tour. So some people — it's good to have a conversation about what are some of the restrictions, maybe on mobility or other things, and we can guide them to the city that's right for them. Lisbon is a city of seven hills. Not great if you have trouble walking up hills. There's other places that are flatter, that have more elevators in the subway system.

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RITA: It's an adventure, right? You're committing to an adventure. And it seems like people come to this ready for one adventure and probably get a different adventure that they didn't expect, and they learn something about themselves in the transition.

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ANDREW: Well, what I tell people is, the program is like a blank canvas. Because you can experience Paris in whatever way you're interested in, and our community manager will help facilitate that. They meet with each person and say, "Hey, what do you wanna do this month?" "Oh, I'm into history. I'm into art. I'm into food." And they will help create that experience for you. So your painting on the canvas of what Paris was like for a month might be different from the person in the apartment next door.

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That said, I tell people it's really good to come and be curious about something. And then we can use the program as a way to explore that curiosity.

[00:32:24]

Oh, one story I like — Barry. Barry is a retired accountant. He's a numbers guy, but he's always kind of had this love of art. And Barry comes to Florence and he is in love with the Renaissance art, and every day he's out exploring something. And in Florence, you can see new artwork every single day without repeating.

[00:32:56]

And our community manager even helped him — "Oh, go to this cathedral or this museum." He gave him a whole list, and every day he would go off and explore. And every Tuesday we have a ritual called our Tuesday Lunch Club where we meet together, and "Hey, what have you been up to?" And Barry's like, "Oh, I did this." And he started painting.

[00:33:22]

Fast-forward, Barry's back home. I reached out to him. We're doing a Zoom and he shows me his studio. He goes, "I'm painting now. I'm painting a lot of these photographs I took. I was so inspired, and I've decided to pursue this artistic interest I've had and reinventing myself in retirement."

[00:33:40]

And I think that's an important thing because retirement for many people is a time of a little bit of identity crisis. "I was an accountant, I'm no longer an accountant. I was the neighbor who lived on the corner. I downsized. I'm not all these things that my identity was made up of before. So who am I now?"

[00:34:03]

And that's the beauty of retirement — or even semi-retirement. "I can redefine who I am, and I can explore these things."

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And I think the one thing that is the through line across all the people who travel with us — they share this core value of deep cultural appreciation. And they understand that to get it, you have to do immersion. Because staying for a month — it's a big commitment, but it's not a normal thing. Therefore, the people who do it are very unique. And that is what people discover when they come on our program: "I found my tribe. These are a bunch of weirdos who absolutely love staying in this place for a month and living like the local, living the European lifestyle."

[00:35:00]

And because their identity is a little bit in flux, they realize: finding people who share these core values is really important. And then they will come back home, they will go visit each other. They will plan their next trip. And I've heard from many of our past travelers that this is sort of redefined their retirement — this is actually how they wanna travel. Now they're like, "We take a month here in the spring with The Good Life Abroad, and then we do a month in the fall, and we go with the people we met at the last program."

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RITA: Any other stories like that?

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ANDREW: Yeah — I tell people, this experience isn't just something you drive by and check off. I encourage you to think about what you can learn and take back with you. And it could be something as tangible as a love for Renaissance art. But in my own case, every time I go on a visitor program, I usually try to time it where I go to the cooking class with the group, and then I learn that dish. I come back home, I don't buy souvenirs anymore. I bring back this dish, and then I'll throw a dinner party, and we'll have "Spain Night" at my house. And I'll cook the thing that I learned — now it's incorporated into my life.

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And so I encourage people: think about what it is you wanna learn or you wanna explore, and then you can put it in that crucible of travel and really take it to the next level.

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RITA: Well, tell us how we can find you if we want to join Rita in Paris or Lisbon for a month. If somebody was interested in spending a month abroad, how can they find you and The Good Life?

[00:38:03]

ANDREW: You can find me and The Good Life Abroad very easily. Thegoodlifeabroad.com, or you could just go to Google and type in The Good Life Abroad and we'll be the first thing that appears. Really easy to find us, and we have a private Facebook group, as I mentioned, that you can learn more about and connect with people who are doing it right now — and see photos of groups that are happening right now.

[00:38:27]

RITA: Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing about The Good Life Abroad. That sounds amazing. I know I will be checking it out.

[00:38:36]

ANDREW: Thanks for having me, Rita. I appreciate it. It was fun.

[00:38:38]

RITA: Thank you so much, Andrew, for taking the time and walking us through all of that. That sounds amazing, and you can reach Andrew at www.thegoodlifeabroad.com — the links to his website are in the show notes.

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