Redefining Joy Through Immersive Travel – As Featured on the SOS for Your Life Podcast

Redefining Joy: The Good Life Abroad

SOS for Your Life – Episode Transcript

SUSIE: Welcome to SOS for your life, emergency wisdom for everyday life. I'm your host Susie St. Angelo and thank you for being here. Today's episode is called Redefining Joy: Choosing the Good Life Abroad. And my guest is Andrew Motiwalla, the founder of The Good Life Abroad, a company that offers immersive travel for people over 55 who want to live in Europe for a month or two. He has worked in the travel industry for over 30 years. And his first experience living abroad was through the Peace Corps as a Peace Corps volunteer in Central America.

Well, this podcast is for you if you know you want to change something. Maybe it's your career, your health, or something else. And you might wonder if this is the right stage or age in life to make this change, and you don't know where to start. Well, maybe you're also that person stuck in analysis paralysis. I understand, I see, and I was you. But just stay tuned. Stay with me on this joyful podcast, this podcast and other ones, because you're going to find a step or two that you can take that will advance your life and just maybe make a little bit of a difference. So, you can find this podcast on Spotify, YouTube, iHeart, Apple, and Amazon platforms. And remember to like, share, and subscribe. Now, let's get into today's episode and meet my guest, Andrew Motiwalla. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to SOS for Your Life, emergency wisdom for everyday life.

ANDREW: Hi, Susie. Thanks for having me.

SUSIE: I'm so happy to have you today. I think the joy of travel is a great conversation as we're recording this in February. I think a lot of people look forward to their travel at this time. So let's get started and talk a little bit about your background and what led you to start The Good Life Abroad.

ANDREW: Sure. So my first international living experience was as a Peace Corps volunteer right after college and I lived in Central America for two years and that's when I first sort of discovered that living abroad is very different from just touring abroad and seeing a bunch of sites. It's actually a completely different experience, right? And both are great things to have and great experiences to have. And I didn't really do anything with that other than going into the travel industry. And so for the past 30 years I've worked in the travel industry, more traditional touring was more of a focus on immersive travel. And one of the things that I learned during that time is people love the tours, they love the trips, but many people were asking me, is there anything that is a little more immersive, a little less get on the bus, get off the bus, go into the hotel, check in to the new one? Especially people who were retired. They were like, "We have time. We don't have to be rushing." And frankly, we get a little tired. And so that sort of sparked the idea for The Good Life Abroad of going to a place and just living there for a month or two and not having to be rushed around a place and being able to explore independently, but also having the support of a local staff person.

SUSIE: So what would you say makes your experience different than some of these other traditional ones that you've mentioned?

ANDREW: Yeah, most tours are great because they allow you to see a lot of things in a relatively short period of time and sort of just pack it in and you can go to many cities over the course of a week or two or maybe on a cruise. You can see a lot of places in a very efficient way. Now, The Good Life Abroad is completely the opposite. It's actually not efficient really — other than you have your own apartment. You have the support of a local staff person, not quite a guide, more like a concierge to help you make the most of your month, but then you have a community of fellow travelers who live around you. And there's a schedule of activities and events throughout the month that allow you to connect with these other travelers and make friendships and go out and do other things. And our local staff person is not just organizing events and activities, but feeding you things that might be of specific interest to you, whether you're an art lover, a history lover, a foodie, a music lover. And you with these new friends end up going off and exploring the city and living really like a local, which is kind of the opposite of being a tourist.

SUSIE: You know, it sounds lovely the way you've explained it. I wonder how important is it to know the language in the country you're visiting?

ANDREW: Yeah. So, for better or for worse, especially in Europe where we focus our operations, most of the young people now all speak some amount of English and we also encourage our travelers to learn at least the basic phrases of the local language. Even if you completely flub it, making that attempt and showing a couple phrases shows that you're really trying and you respect that local culture. And then the amazing thing too is technology today. Google Translate on your phone, you can take a picture, scan a menu, and it translates to you. I've even seen some of our travelers — now mind you, our communities are 55 and older — and I've seen some of our travelers with the glasses now that can do translation into your ear. I mean, the technology is moving so quickly. And it's so amazing. So, technology is a friend. English is widely spoken. You can make an effort. And I think what I've seen too is a lot of our travelers, now that they're retired, are thinking, "Ah, I'd like to go back and brush off my high school French or my college Spanish and maybe it'll kind of come back to mind if I spend a month in Paris or Madrid." And so they really use it as an opportunity to kind of re-immerse themselves in that foreign language.

SUSIE: Mhm. Well, you've confirmed everything I've done so far in the short time that I've been traveling, too. I'll take some simple phrases, three or four that I try to memorize and learn. Or I'll write it down on an index card so that I can show that to the person. And I always feel it is respectful of that country to come with something basic. You know, there's nothing worse than feeling like a deer in the headlights. And the second thing I do is I have a shellfish allergy. So, I print out cards in that language. I'll say I have a shellfish allergy and I'll be specific.

ANDREW: That's a great idea. I like that a lot.

SUSIE: Yeah, it's been helpful. Because some people will assume shellfish is seafood and it's not. So that was helpful for me as I started traveling and became more comfortable. But you're right. I mean, there's part of me that says I'd love to come back to France and test my French. It would be nice to be able to have a conversation and feel a lot more comfortable with the locals. So I guess I would say — where are some of the places that you travel abroad?

ANDREW: So, we're only in Europe and we're in all the kind of usual suspects, the major European cities — Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, Lisbon — but we're also in some smaller places like Florence, Italy. We're in Palermo, Sicily. Vienna is a bigger city, Prague. Valencia, Spain, Seville, Spain. We're in Nice in southern France which is a gorgeous place on the Côte d'Azur. And we're expanding. We're in Porto which is a smaller city now and Split, Croatia off more in Eastern Europe and Prague I mentioned. So we're in about 23 cities across Europe. So if you've ever thought "I'd love to go live in Europe for a month or more," we should have most of the continent covered, and we're always expanding as well.

SUSIE: Well, that's great. And I'm sure you get feedback from your travelers who say, "Have you ever thought about putting a trip to such and such together?" I'm sure that comes up.

ANDREW: Yeah, it's interesting. We get a lot and it's often an interesting trend — people wanting to go back and research their heritage. So, in our program in Palermo, Sicily, I have a lot of Italian-Americans who have roots in Sicily. And of course that begs the question, well there are a lot of Irish-Americans, so why don't we have something in Ireland? So that's a big hole. And we have a big hole with no programming in Germany. So those are high on my radar and have been flagged by our own community who ask us those questions.

SUSIE: Oh my goodness, that's great. I think a lot more people are interested in their genealogy and are taking an interest in where they came from. I do have a friend who's gone back to where her family came from. And I think that a lot more people are just interested in that, especially with some of this DNA testing — you do it and you find out where you're from. So that's interesting. So tell me how the name The Good Life came about and what do you consider a good life?

ANDREW: So, it's a great question, Susie, and it's funny because it actually started with a book. And I have to give credit to this book because the book is literally called The Good Life. I was sort of in between jobs and thinking about what I wanted to do, especially as I got closer to retirement age. And I did some introspection. I read some books and this was one of them. And I thought, as I get closer to retirement, I want to make sure I go out with a bang. You know, I do something that really makes me happy, because throughout my career I had a couple of jobs where I was less than happy. And this book, The Good Life, is basically the study from Harvard University — it's the longest running longitudinal study on happiness. And spoiler alert, the punchline is the thing that shows a common denominator of happiness across all these cohorts across all these years is relationships — healthy, positive relationships with other human beings. And that really stuck with me — this idea of community. Who is your community? Especially later in life. And I saw that happen firsthand with my parents who moved from Chicago to San Diego where I was with my kids, to come be the grandparents. But as my kids got older and went off, the grandparents were sort of like, "What do we do? We're alone and the grandkids are off in college and Andrew is traveling for work all the time." And they ended up moving into a 55-plus community and their life transformed because they had community and friends. Their friends from back in Chicago were back in Chicago, but having new friends, having new activities — I could see the difference, especially my dad who was a little less physically mobile. Now he's doing the water aerobics and the poker night and the book club and it's beautiful to see how busy and full and rich their lives have become. So that is one of the big things that influenced me — this idea around community. And that obviously, along with the name of the book, helped influence the name of the company: The Good Life Abroad.

SUSIE: Well, you know, it just sounds inviting — the good life. It leads you to your own interpretation of the good life, and I think a lot of people would say, "Oh, I'd love to live somewhere for a month." I had a former client who would go to Paris every year to go to a cooking school, and whatever he prepared — he was in retirement — he'd come back and host parties for his family and friends. He had a large family of children and they'd bring everybody and he'd cook the things he made in Paris. And I think that gave him joy. That gave his wife a break. He came back just re-energized. I wonder if you have any success stories of people's travel with you that you could share?

ANDREW: That's a great example because you're right, the good life is different for everyone. And in fact, our program is designed with that in mind. It's designed to be a blank canvas — almost like a scaffolding, right? We have an apartment, you have fellow travelers who are nearby, you've got this person who supports you, we have events and activities, we even provide health insurance while you're abroad. But the canvas itself is blank. And one of the things we do when people arrive in our program is we meet with them one-on-one in the first couple of days and say, "What do you want to get out of this? What should your month look like?"

SUSIE: It's like a sabbatical.

ANDREW: Exactly. And then our community manager, our local staff, helps you kind of paint that canvas. Like, okay, if you want to do more cooking, you want to do language, you want to maybe travel to other cities over the weekend, I can help you plan even just the logistics of it all. And that's really beautiful — you now have a local person who gets to know you, which is better than going on the internet saying "what's the best thing" — the best for who, right? All sorts of random anonymous people on the internet have opinions. But now you have a local staff person who really gets to know you. Okay, Susie likes more of this and less of that. And they can help tailor that experience. So the best travelers for us who come to our communities are people who have some sort of curiosity or some kind of intention. I think traveling with intention is really key because it converts it from just "I'm going to go and see things, check off a checklist" — which is fine — to "what do you really want to get out of it that's personally fulfilling to you?" So you asked me about a success story. One of my favorites is a gentleman who was an accountant for his whole life and then went into retirement and just like many people in retirement, was like, "Okay, who am I? What's my identity now?" He came to Florence with a real desire to understand and appreciate Renaissance art and art in general. I think he had even taken a class at the community college before coming — a free class on art appreciation or Renaissance art. And he really had an intention. He said to our local staff, "I want to see a lot of art." And we helped him go off and see things that most tourists don't see — like, go to this small town 15 minutes outside of Florence, there's this cathedral, you'll see this. And he saw it all with a different lens because he had done some homework ahead of time. He also started painting while he was there and really got into it. I ended up connecting with him on Zoom after his program and he had been painting and he showed me some of the paintings. He's really got into painting and kind of reinvented himself post-retirement. And that to me is success — because he had a curiosity, he wanted to scratch an itch, and travel wasn't just the final step. Travel was like an accelerant to help fire along his interest and curiosity. I think travel, if you think back to college study abroad programs, you could learn things in the classroom, but there's something about going to a place and learning about it in the environment where it's all happening that's really magical and takes it to another level.

SUSIE: I think it's a great success story. And pointing out the travel abroad and how people are thrown into living with a host family, having to really ramp up their language and figure out how to get around — all the things you're talking about with The Good Life. But back to your success story, what an interesting person — who was probably more detail-oriented and everything fit into a nice little box — and then he unlocked the other side of his brain.

ANDREW: I know. And he's probably going to live a lot longer by going through that experience, because of that challenge. Plus it's exposed him to some new people and new experiences.

SUSIE: Yeah. Great story. And I think everyone can do that. Everyone can travel with intention.

ANDREW: Doesn't have to be as elaborate as this gentleman. But I think one of the things that's so important as we get older is to maintain that sense of curiosity. And if you have some curiosity then you can create intentions — like, I want to understand better the cuisine of France, I like tasting it but now I want to go deeper. Or personally, I love reading historical fiction around World War II. So I like going to those places and seeing it really and trying to understand it at a deeper level. It doesn't have to be as elaborate as becoming a painter, but I think if you have a little curiosity — and you don't even have to travel to scratch that itch — you can read books, but travel just takes it to another level.

SUSIE: Well, when I knew I was going to start traveling internationally, I started reading travel memoirs and it gave me a visualization — I could visualize what these places look like, and some of the trips were a result of reading those memoirs. They stopped at the time of the pandemic, so I couldn't find many after that for a period of time, but they're coming back. I think that's always interesting — to read someone who either travels independently or with a friend or a spouse, and how that really changes them. So I guess one question back to your business — what about the values you have, and did your values play into your business?

ANDREW: Yeah. So I think when people get to know me and ask, "How do I come off to you?" they'll say, as they get to know me, there are a couple of words that come to mind — one is joy and one is community. I personally love to bring people together and have fun. That's just who I am. And for me, that's kind of what travel has done, even in my personal life. I love throwing dinner parties, having people over — an interesting couple here and this person over there — and this will be a really interesting conversation. And I love making some food that I learned to make while traveling, finding wine from that country. I get really into it. So joy and community are two key values to me, and that really has now played into the business. Joy is in the name — The Good Life Abroad — finding your own joy, whatever sparks joy in you. But community is so key. I give the example of my parents, but the community aspect is something that people don't fully appreciate until they go on a program and experience it. They walk away saying, "That was amazing. I didn't realize how powerful that would become," because they've truly found new friends — people who share a core value of cultural appreciation. The kind of person who goes and spends a month somewhere in one place — that's a bit unusual, but it's what connects them because they really value that cultural immersion. And so the community aspect is a powerful part of what we do. We think community helps create the good life, it creates happiness through personal relationships, but it also makes traveling for a month or two more fun and less lonely. About a third of our travelers are solo travelers, so they naturally love the idea that if they're feeling social, they can jump into the community activities, and if they want to be independent, they can be. But even our couples appreciate it too. In the very beginning when I was doing market research, I had this concept and I was interviewing a couple, and he said, "I love this idea." I said, "I'm curious — why? You have a partner, you won't be alone if you're going somewhere for a month." And he said, "Oh, no, no. We've done extended trips a few weeks at a time, but honestly, she's heard my jokes for the past 30 years we've been married, and it'd be nice to find some new people." And she said, "Yeah, and I always want to go to cathedrals and he doesn't, so I'd like to find some people who share my interests." And you start to realize — doesn't matter if you're single or married. Community fills important gaps in travel. Find people with similar interests to connect with, maybe go out to dinner or have a potluck in your own apartment. It comes back to one of my core values of bringing people together, and beautiful things happen.

SUSIE: Lovely. That is so lovely. You know, you talked about cultural experiences and immersing yourself in the culture. And so in light of our world and the state of affairs today, how important do you think that is now — to understand another country's culture, another town's culture?

ANDREW: Yeah. I think this is how I tell myself I'm contributing to trying to make the world a better place — my own small way is helping people see the world from different perspectives. Not just political, but also to see that there are different ways of living. When our travelers, mostly from North America, go to Europe and they're living in the city center and truly trying to live like a local, there's a bit of culture shock. It's a different way of living — slowing down, walking, fresh foods. It's not the Costco mega-load. Everything has a lighter environmental footprint. It's about living a good life. And yes, we have to make a living, but it's a different set of values. And I don't think everyone has to always embrace all those values. But I think it's important for people to see there's more than one way to live life. We grow up in America and we're taught certain things, and that's great — we have one of the biggest economies in the world as a result. I'd like to encourage people to think about the fact that it's a choice how you live your life, and there are many ways to live, and maybe there are things you want to pick and choose that you adopt from other cultures and incorporate into your own life. To me, that's success — because you realize all cultures offer something to the world, and that's what makes this world beautiful.

SUSIE: Well said. I always feel more knowledgeable, less naive, and more respectful of different cultures once I've experienced them. I don't want to be that "ugly American" who goes over and is rude or doesn't attempt to speak the language or wants exactly what they have back in the United States. I think we're intentional about going to Europe because we do want a different experience. We want to experience a different flow. And sometimes a week in Europe in one place might seem like a long time, but that's really not if you want to immerse yourself in that area. I've had two-week vacations that were such a blessing and a gift, but still you leave wanting more and saying, "I'm going to come back." So you're offering that in a longer period.

ANDREW: Yeah. And also, when you travel anywhere in an immersive way — not just in a quick, superficial way — you also develop some empathy for the place. I don't know about you, but I come back and now I look at the news and think, "What's happening in Spain?" How does US foreign policy impact Spain? I have friends there — I feel connected, I care about people in other places. So I tend to be a little more attuned to what's happening in the world and how it affects other countries. It's different when you have a friend in a place than when it's just some foreign land you know about only theoretically. Building empathy — you realize we are in a very interconnected world.

SUSIE: Is there one place that's affected you emotionally more than another?

ANDREW: I think one of the things I'm seeing is that a lot of what's happening in the United States is not unique to the United States. Sometimes I feel like, "Oh my gosh, everything's getting crazy here." And then I look across Europe and I see a lot of the same trends. You start to realize there are these macro forces at work and they're going to play out slightly differently in different countries and on different timelines. And that has affected me profoundly. I think there's a bit of a coarsening and a little less empathy and care toward people from other countries and cultures, and I find that distressing. And I think that's one of the things that gives me energy to really push this idea of immersive travel, because I think in my small way, that's building empathy one person at a time, and every friendship you can make across borders is one step in the right direction.

SUSIE: Well, I think you're right. I think also smiling at people and not being so serious in any place where you're traveling — a smile can soften and open a door. We take everything so seriously and we've got to have everything planned and regimented. It's really nice when you can step back and take a breather and just enjoy and be. And I talk about joy as one of the contributors to our health. It's not just diet and exercise. It's our finances, our job, our home life, our cooking — but it's joy. And what brings us joy. And I think a lot of people find travel to be joyful. It should be. Darn if airlines and security try to complicate it — but there are improvements. I've gone through security in Europe in seconds and was so impressed. Any anxiety I felt had gone away. So I think you've answered what does the joy of travel mean to you.

ANDREW: Well, I think there's even more to it. I think joy in general has a lot of ways to be created in your life. Travel is just again like an accelerant — a way to catalyze, to turn up the intensity of everything. So when I think about practices you can do in day-to-day life to increase your joy, you look at all the scientific studies: especially as we get older, growing mentally, learning new things, nurturing your curiosity, connecting with other people — this whole idea of community and connection — adaptation, how do you face and adapt to challenges. These are all practices you can cultivate in day-to-day life at home. But when you travel, it takes everything to a new level. The learning — everything is new suddenly. Languages, words, foods. The adaptation — now I have to adapt to living in the middle of a European city. Everything is a little smaller, the apartments are smaller, the refrigerator is smaller, I'm walking places, I'm not in my car. And the connection — there are new people in my community, people who don't speak my language. How am I going to connect? With a smile, a gesture, some broken Spanish. These components of joy are absolutely heightened during travel, but they're all things we can also do back home. I see travel as just an extension of the same things.

SUSIE: Most definitely. I've had someone on about the joy of pets, and the sorrow of losing pets too. There's joy to be found if you look for it.

ANDREW: Yeah. And sometimes it requires reframing. I have a pet, but I got the pet when I had kids at home. Now the kids are off at college and the pet has become a lot of work because it's just me. So I have to reframe it — yes, sometimes like, "Oh gosh, I'm tired, I don't want to walk the dog at night." But this dog has provided so much friendship and love and companionship, and it's honestly the sweetest thing on earth and I'm so lucky to have her around. So what is a walk besides — it's probably good for me to get a few more steps in for the day.

SUSIE: Well, you just hit on a few values there — responsibility, gratitude. A dog needs you. So — can travel help people rediscover themselves?

ANDREW: This is a great question because so many people come on our program during a time of transition, especially our solo travelers. I was surprised, honestly, in our very first group ever when we first launched this concept. I went for the first group and there were three or four women who were in their late 50s, early 60s — relatively young — and they were all widows. They'd been taken by surprise and didn't know what to do. But the one thing they had in common was that they had all traveled a lot when they were married. Often when you're married, especially over many years, roles develop. Oh, he's the planner and I'm the one who books the tickets, he's the navigator and I'm the one who does this or that. And then you lose half of the partnership and you're like, "What do I do? But I still love travel." And so they came to The Good Life Abroad — they were definitely early adopters, our very first group. They thought, "This is great. Someone else will fill in the gaps and I can still do all the fun exploration stuff that I love about travel." And then they met each other. And that community became super tight because they really bonded over their shared loss. I thought that was very beautiful. Over time, I've also met a lot of people who got divorced later in life, didn't expect that to happen, and said, "Okay, I need to reinvent myself." And often what happens in a period of reinvention is to go back and look at your own core values and say, "Who am I? Maybe I've lost some of who I was." For many people, one of their core values is this love of culture and exploration and travel. I see people going back to what really matters to them, doing the things that give them joy, and rebuilding from there. Travel is a comforting way to do that — again, with some intentionality and not just as an escape. There's also a path where travel becomes an escape — you don't want to deal with things and you just book cruise after cruise and go and kind of numb yourself and don't want to deal with what's back home. There are different ways to approach travel and use it for reinventing yourself in a positive way.

SUSIE: You know, I believe that there are no coincidences. I was just having lunch with my closest friend and we were talking about travel. I had just been to Arizona — went to the same place last year too — and I said, "This year I should have stayed a few more days." But every person I met, I was meant to meet. Whether it was two Susans and a Suzanne, or sitting next to a couple whose wife is from Indiana where I'm from and whose husband went to Indiana University Law School, and we had this hour-and-a-half, two-hour conversation. I was meant to be there. And it's just like what you said about the three people who had lost spouses and them coming together. What a neat bond. Sometimes those of us who are solo travelers wonder, "Is there going to be anybody I'll get along with? Am I going to do things by myself?" But I find more times than not, I find someone I was meant to connect with.

ANDREW: Yeah. And it doesn't even have a chance of occurring if you don't put yourself out there. That's the first step. And I think that's why travel is often beautiful for that — something about travel where you'll talk to strangers, whereas back in your hometown you might not. Something about travel makes you open up and say things, maybe because you know you're going to go away. It's temporary, almost like a confessional — and then disappear. But then sometimes it clicks and you find a new great friend.

SUSIE: Yeah, I agree with that. In fact, I'd never been on a cruise and I've been on four or five now. But that first one was pretty magical — there were a lot of firsts. I couldn't get over how many people, when you get on an elevator, you'd start a very short conversation. Where are you from? Or you're doing your safety review before the boat takes off, standing next to someone, and you start a conversation, and it turns out there's a connection. I was on fire. All these little things — I met someone from here or there, the excursions that take you to different places. So yes, I definitely agree with that. So what's next for The Good Life Abroad? What are you planning?

ANDREW: Well, we just launched a few new programs. In addition to our month-long signature stays, we just launched something called two-week short stays. We did this because people love going to the bigger cities and spending a month, but they also wanted to visit smaller towns — but spending a whole month in some of those smaller towns might be a little much. So we offer that in places like Lake Como in Italy. It's beautiful, but it's a small town — two weeks is about right. We also offer a program type called Solo Traveler Sessions, which are exclusively reserved for solo travelers to come together. You all live in the same apartment building in your own apartment, but it really cements that idea of a tight community. And we're also going to be offering new destinations. I mentioned earlier we have a few countries with big gaps — Ireland and Germany are high on the radar. So we hope to fill those sometime this year.

SUSIE: Sounds like a lot of good things in the hopper and something for everybody.

ANDREW: Something for everyone. Absolutely.

SUSIE: What does living the good life really mean to you?

ANDREW: For me, it's learning. I'm a curious person. I have the intellectual itch all the time — I want to learn something. And that goes in a couple of different directions. Food is really fun for me. So I'm learning to cook more, especially as I get into retirement and the kids are out. I want to become a really good cook. I like trying to learn a new sport. I'm always trying to learn new languages — I speak a few languages and that's something that keeps me going. So, learning, connecting, and trying to expand my friend group versus contracting — getting out there more. And that often comes through travel or trying to learn a new sport, where you meet people. Also trying to give back. Especially as I get toward retirement, maybe doing more volunteering, because giving back — and just being kind on a consistent basis. I'm guilty of getting caught up in being a busy professional and forgetting to just sometimes be kind and nice to people on a daily basis. Be a little bit more mindful of that. I think that's something I also learned in France. You don't walk into a shop and say "I'll have that" — you start with bonjour. You recognize there's a human on the other side of the counter. They say bonjour. Then you go into your business. And when you leave, you say goodbye. There's something about remembering the humanity in these transactions, versus in the US where sometimes we're so focused on efficiency — get in, get out — and there are no words exchanged with the person checking you out at the grocery store. So I'm trying to be a little more mindful of that. Just, "Hi, how are you?" Little things like that.

SUSIE: I'm a pretty intuitive person and sometimes I can read a room pretty quickly. I can pick up the energy of people around me. So I have to be very careful about the people I surround myself with, and sometimes I have to put healthy boundaries up around that. But I know that when I go to the grocery store, just recently, I pick up other people's sadness or frustration, I can just tell. And so I'll either try to make a joke or talk about the weather or something that gets them going — and always leave feeling like, okay, hopefully that put a smile on their face or left them better than when I got to them. I don't know, it doesn't always work. But I always go into certain situations knowing whatever you put out, you receive.

ANDREW: Yeah. Absolutely. My daughter for a while did something that I really love. She would go into a store or a restaurant and look for something to compliment. "I really like those earrings." "I really like that blouse." "Cool tattoo." Whatever the thing was. She did it regularly and I really admire that. I thought, okay, I can use that as well. Just put a little smile on someone's face. It has to be authentic and genuine, but there's almost always something to find.

SUSIE: There is always something. And sometimes other people need to get out of their heads, too. As much as we say we do, some of the people we're interacting with probably want that as well. So Andrew, I always ask every guest this question. What's your SOS? What is one or two things that people listening or watching this podcast can take away today from our conversation?

ANDREW: Yeah, I think the number one thing I would like people to take away from this is that joy is a practice that you can cultivate in your own life. It's not just something that happens. Joy is something you can build in your own life. And it doesn't have to be travel, although I love it. But it's things like learning new things, connecting with other human beings, and giving — giving back, giving a smile, giving a compliment, volunteering. Can be structured or unstructured, but these are practices that everyone can do to build joy in their own lives.

SUSIE: Absolutely. Well said. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you'd like to share with our viewers and listeners?

ANDREW: Sure, if you'll indulge me. I think back often to my Peace Corps experience and to President Kennedy, who created the Peace Corps. His vision was: what if we had 100,000 young Americans go abroad and live at the grassroots level all over the world? And then they came back, and every year we had 100,000 more — and a lot of these young people would go into government and business. What would our world look like? What would US foreign policy look like? That was President Kennedy's vision. Now the Peace Corps never got to more than 20,000 volunteers in a year, and lately it's been much lower. But the Peace Corps doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting. What about just sending people abroad to immerse themselves in a meaningful way? How can the power of immersive travel — of long, slow travel — change how we as a country see the rest of the world? So that's my parting thought: President Kennedy's vision, and how that can live out in different ways through our own travel.

SUSIE: Well, and you're doing it one little piece at a time. I had several classmates who went into the Peace Corps and enjoyed their experience. It was a change from a very conservative liberal arts college in the Midwest. Where did you go?

ANDREW: I visited DePauw. I didn't go there, but I visited. It was very beautiful.

SUSIE: It was. Yeah, it's — I probably couldn't get in now. That's probably true of most of us. So, Andrew, where can our listeners and viewers find you if they want more information on The Good Life Abroad?

ANDREW: Very simple. Just go to Google and type in "The Good Life Abroad" and we should be the first thing that appears, or thegoodlifeabroad.com. And if you want to reach out to me personally, it's very easy — it's andrew@thegoodlifeabroad.com.

SUSIE: Wonderful. That's very easy. Andrew, thank you so much for being on SOS for Your Life, emergency wisdom for everyday life. I've thoroughly personally enjoyed our conversation and I know a lot of other people are going to investigate and research what The Good Life Abroad is for them, and hopefully you'll attract a few more interested parties in immersive travel. So thank you so much for being here today.

ANDREW: Thank you, Susie. I've enjoyed our conversation.

SUSIE: Likewise. Thank you. Well friends, sadly that's all the time we have today. Thank you for listening or watching SOS for Your Life, emergency wisdom for everyday life. And thank you Andrew for being here today. This topic was so interesting — it's not just about travel. It's about joy and community. And you can find joy and community even at home if you're not traveling. But traveling abroad, traveling immersively, and really getting to know the culture and the people in different countries can really enrich your life and make it a better place for all of us. I hope if you're listening or watching that you will take that step and consider traveling with intention, as Andrew said. You can find me or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, or email at susan@creatingnewjoy.com. Until next time, take care and I hope our paths cross again.